What human rights legacy for the Beijing Olympic Games?

A promising Olympics?

Liu Jingmin, Vice-President of the Beijing Olympic Bid Committee, said in 2001 that allowing Beijing to host the Games would “help the development of human rights”. The IOC agreed.

What is your view of the impact of the Olympics on human rights in China?

How can the Chinese authorities deliver a lasting legacy for human rights?

This discussion is now closed.

This website will be revamped, and will not be updated in the meantime. For more information about Amnesty International's work on China, please visit this link.

Thank you for your support.

It’s a bit hard to tell at present as they haven’t happened yet.

Even though the Olympics haven’t been on yet, we can definitely see things are happening already. Both positive as negative matters can be pointed out. I think a crucial thing is that China is aware of the fact that the international community is putting the spotlight on them.. this makes the human rights debate even more evident. The intended impact is that China will accelerate their efforts for the improvement of human rights.
A lasting legacy can for instance partly be accomplished by keeping their regulations with regards to media freedom also after the Olympics.  

In 2007 when the media reported about china, it was all about investments, trade and economic growth. Only very few words about human rights. This also had an effect on politicians: they saw no benefit  in talking about HR in China. In 2008 things turned 180°: media and politics ‘discovered’ the human rights situation in China, thanks to organisations like Amnesty and the events in Tibet. Will this have a positive effect on China’s policies? Imagine that nobody would have mentioned the human rights situation during the year that the whole world is watching Olympic China. That would surely have a very negative effect. So we’ll have to wait for the evolutions on the ground, but I’m confident that the global outcry about HR in China of the past months will have a positive impact.

to me, as a chinese myself, i also realized the hr problem here, not recently,but for a long time just stronger now with the medias applying imfo.that reminds me of the time when chinese ppl began to boycott carrifore as Sarkozy once cliamed that he shall boycott olympic.but wat happened then?all the chinese employees in carrifore suffered directly.as to the olympic, i think it will work the same way if ppl just boycott it to raise their voice against chinese government , will that strike really work and how?or will it just to prevent chinese ppl from having fun in olympics and make us suffered ?! thats not reasonable to me at all.if anybody is a real human rights seeker, he should not use the olympic time to fight when china is all the whole focused .isnt that hypocritelike?
but after all im happy that the government is under a pressure and things r gradually becoming symatrical which is moving toward the good side.more and more ppl around me r gaining this consciousness.im glade that there r a contradiction of 2 groups.1 is protesting, which is making more awareness in chinese ppl and government. the other is supporting , so that the beijing olympic will not be a lose.hope its a win-win.

I think it’s ironic to say that people should separate the Olympics from the so-called politics. Does the Chinese government separate the Olympics from politics? Hardly ever. For one thing, it has spent tens of million to cultivate national sport players, the money of which could have been spent on, say, HIV carriers in Henan. Why should the national wealth be spent on gold medals, but not on human lives? Dude, this is politics.

China takes pride in its achievement of economic progress since 1949 and will claim this as its legacy.  I think it’s problematic if the focus of engagement with China on human rights is solely on civil political rights.  Unless it addresses socio economic rights and right to development issues in China, human rights organisations like Amnesty will always be suspect to being a ‘Western-based organisation” by China and the Chinese people.  Freedom of expression, censorship, fair trial have to be linked to  this claims of “economic progress”  by China.  Similarly, where there are achievements and reforms by China, I think its important to genuinely affirm and recognize these.  An imbalanced view of human rights will not contribute to a dialogue between governments and between peoples on human rights in China.
 

I agree with Edna that - there should recognition of progress on economic rights in China. However, I don’t think the role of organizations such as Amnesty is to focus their resources on documenting what has been achieved but what still needs attention. Having said that I would like to see more of a focus on how economic progress in China, although delivering on some aspects and to some of the population, has left some behind [as is the case around the world, even in 'developed' countries]. Although Amnesty does have a bias towards civil and political rights in regard to China [I think they only expanded their focus a few years ago?], several of the activist they are high-lighting are fighting for those who have had their economic and social rights violated - for example those fighting for the right to land/shelter, workers rights and health rights.

Human rights, human rights, human rights…
I’ve heard enough of it but what have you done to improve it? By insulting 1.4 billion people using some so called campaigns? By providing some ill-informed report to fool the rest of the world? By encourage hatred against China? By publishing some horrific advertisements with biased allergations?
Within the recent 20 years, more than 400,000,000 Chinese citizens have been out of poverty thanks to the great achievement of the social and economic reforms implemented by the Chinese government. This is the most important and greatest achievement in the history of human rights. It, however, has been deliberately ignored by some so-called humanity organisation like AI.
I do not mean to say that the Chinese governemnt is perfect. It is not for sure. Lots of work need to be done in order to improve the human rights situation in China. No doubt for it. However, the human right situation in China is improving in a rapid and steady way. Great majority of poeple living in China can experience it. Only the West has problems with it due to its deeply-rooted prejudices.
Back to the topic, this Olympics will be the most sucessful one and all the Chinese people will be proudly showing the world their great achievements.

Hey anti-amnesty, it is fine to note the economic achievements made in China, particularly in recent decades but that doesn’t make it exempt from criticism - I haven’t noticed the critics of the US, paricularly for its war in Iraq [where its troops have commited many human rights violations] softening their attacks because of the US economy. I would much rather hear your assessment of the work still needed by the Chinese government, and what you think are the important issues for people in China in regard to these rights?

Although,like most,I’m appalled by human rights violations in China,I hope for the sake of its citizens that tourists,and with them their influx of revenue,are welcomed in droves.Even though Liu Jingman made promises he couldn’t keep seven years ago,and that people from plain folk to peaceful protesters to professionals are still  being harassed by that nation’s government,the needs of the average Chinese come first, especially in the wake of the cataclysmic earthquake! So may the true spirit of the games
outshine the dark dealings.
 

Enter your comment here
There are so many levels on which the Olympics in China transgress human rights, its hard to know where to begin. Aside from the unprecedented restrictions on journalists, visitors and Olympians to this Olympiad, how can the world justify this extravagance at the expense of the suffering of many Chinese? For example, the severe reduction of natural water supplies to Chinese farmers North of Beijing; the unfair confiscation of personal properties to present a beautified Beijing to the ‘West’ and the most reprehensible of all, fudging the statistics of health risks to those who’ll attend the Olympics and potentiallly take the contagens home - ie. a post-Olympic worldwide pandemic

Its people like Hu Jia that are helping the development of human rights in china, not the fanatical and paranoid Chinese Government..a positive legacy of the Games would be more people in China feeling confident they can openly challenge the States authority… the Government must be held accountable..that is for the good of the people of China

with the beijing olympics almost upon us, the chinese regime’s legacy toward it is already evident. its paranoid approach to any real or imagined dissent, criticism, appeal for justice & freedom of expression, is repugnant & unacceptable of a nation hosting the modern olympics.
no government can expect to brutalize & torture its citizens & then dodge scrutiny when hosting such a significant world event.
the democratic nations are also culpable, along with the IOC. 
China’s emergence as a cash cow for multi nationals has sadly created an apathy towards human rights by leaders in the west.  

I think no one on earth complain about the Chinese government more than the Chinese people themselves.  As a Chinese living in America, I am appreciative of the spotlight shone upon China; it gives me hope that there will be positive changes to come.
However, as an Chinese living in the U.S., I find more and more people turning drastically hostile and tend to take it out on the Chinese people, myself included, simply because I represent a Chinese face in these online forums.  Racist, derogatory insults are thrown around quite often, the most meaningless and annoying ones are “you reds” or “you communists.”  Don’t people know that of the 1.3 billion Chinese, a very small fraction is actually part of the communist party?  Being a patriotic Chinese has nothing to do with communism, just as it has nothing to do with the human rights (or lack thereof) issues at hand.  I wonder if these peace-talkers really know what they’re protesting for, or if they are informed about the situation at all.
 
 

Enter your comment hereHuman Rights - Absolute hypocrisy.
Where was all the shouting about human rights during the 84 LA Games. If memory serves me that was when Reagan was mining Nicaraguan harbours, killing off thousands of South
Americans who had elected democratic Governments that didnt
suit America. Where was all the noise at the Sydney Olympics when the Howard Government interned all who arrived by boat
other than firstclass passengers on PandO liners. How can the CIA support Western Chinese “Freedom fighters” who want to do to the Olympic stadium what others did to The World Trade Centre. The hypocrisy is beyond belief. One can only hope the games in Beijing are safe and successful because they are for
athletes not politicians, Western or Asian!

The problem with reports that amnesty produces is that they are fundamentally subjective. China is quite right to suggest that pulling people out of poverty should be taken into account in any debate on human rights. Moreover, for any society to establish a structure within which human rights can be properly respected, a sound economic basis must be established, and China is in the process of doing this.
 
For amnesty’s part, they obviously enjoy the fact that they are noticed every time a report like this is brought out, but shouldn’t they be concerned with introducing a grading system based on (as) objective (as possible) quality of life parameters? Perhaps this is not their remit, because human rights only represents one aspect of quality of life , and they are solely concerned with that aspect.
I can understand the frustration of the Chinese when many Western nations refuse to recognize that they have been and are guilty of human rights abuses. Think of the 60s in America when a de facto apartheid existed in the Southern states, but when  the US was considered the vanguard of the free world. The 70s when to be Irish in Britain was not a happy lot, detentions without trial in Northern Ireland.
China has a right to expect that the rest of the world allows it to come to respecting values in due course. They showed during the earthquake that their state does care about its citizens, and that is a good starting point.
Values not only change accross cultures, but they also change over time within cultures. If we understand this then maybe we can cut the Chinese a bit more slack on this issue.

Human Right? What that? The only human right that exist in this world is for the individual with money and respect. As every nations govt in this world is corrupted.  And the most corrupted nations are usually the nations that critizes human right of other nations. Where as they feel by point out other’s nations violation of their views, would some how wipe their own history of human right abuse clean. 

A legacy of the Olympics in China will be a move in that country to accept ‘political dissent’.  Political dissent needs to be part of the public discourse.  Many of the human rights concerns about China would be reduced if differences of views were as welcomed in that country as in other parts of the world.
 

We are talking about the human rights but if everyone will fallow what they want what will happen to china? remember china is dealling with mass # of people its right to have laws to fallow and china never give each individual less opportunity to improve or have satisfaction on their own. Just fallow the laws its for the country not for individual after hundred of years the country is still there but not the human who lives there now.

The Chinese government doesn’t really care about getting people out of poverty, otherwise they wouldn’t be enabling a new oligarchy. They only want to economic growth so the people are satisfied enough that they don’t revolt.
Personally, I think China needs a revolution. I avoid buying products made there as much as possible, since supporting their economy is prolonging their government’s control.
 

quite right, Ting.  For the Chinese, or any, government to adjust the quality of human rights to any reasonable degree, corruption would have to decline.  If anything, maybe the games will bring about this realization among (global) citizens.  A global, peaceful protest could really, in my opinion, change a lot.

I have heard this many times before: my family is better than yours, my communite is better than yours, my country is better than yours and now… my way of life is better than yours.   It’s so easy to criticize other’s inadiquacies when you are living far better than the vast majority of the world.    The so called “civilized nations” always look down on the rest of the us as if we are aimless children, while ignoring their own past and how their countries came to be.  
In the past 500 years, how many wars have you fought amongst yourselves and how many nations have you subjugated to your iron rule?   Of the billions of people on Earth, how many have you oppressed, enslaved, drugged and sold as property during your glorious history?   How many have you treated as less than human and deny them the very diginity of life? 
If you can answer these questions, then you will realize how your former “spheres of influence” felt.   To most of us, you are nothing but idealistic hypocrites.
Oh yes, feel free to remove this post if you find this insentive.   I wouldn’t want to dampen your crusade for “Freedom”, “Liberty” and free speech.

hey zhang11, do you think we would make more progress in respecting human dignity & human freedom, if we stepped outside the framework of overt nationalism.
I think deep down you know its wrong for governments to beat people up & murdering people for speaking their mind or practising a particular faith. ”that goes for any government friend” east or west. the olympics brings exposure & scrutiny for whoever is lucky enough to stage them, thats the trade off!!

Hey Zhang11, just like to point out that China has over 5000 years of history, oppressing people and subjegating nations, so I’d lay off the historical arguments, particularly with respect to America.  They may have made a pigs ear out of Iraq, with some help from us Brits but at just over 200 years old they are still a naive and rash teenager as far as nations go.  Notice also Zhang that your post has not been removed, I have experience of Chinese sites and my posts are never displayed, maybe because I am pro-choice in Tibet, Taiwan and Xinjiang.

I would like the IOC to drop the facade that they support human dignity and admit that they are a just a business like Cocacola and Google (who also drop heir pretence to do no evil )

It can be a good Olympics if we make ourselves herd by doing what we can… unfortunately talk alone wont do it. Visit http://www.silentmessage.org for Tibet and human rights…

I can’t help but wonder how these bunch of toadies who call themeselves the IOC, ever came to represent the integrity of the international community in such  a major world event as  the olympics. whos up for 2016 guys, Burma? Sudan?
I guess the poor guys cant help it, they’re simply unscrupulous!!!

What worries me the most is whether the Super Giant like China can be put under pressure to change it’s policies on Human Rights Issues. What can we do as the world to put them under pressure ?

Hi all,

As a Chinese, I understand that now China still has a lot of problems and there are quite numbers of unjust treatments. I just sincerely hope that there will be an improvement on that.

How many of you can honestly declare that your criticsm, advice, etc are for the good for Chinese People? If this is your true intention, God will bless you.

Forgive me for being rude - I don’t think all of you have such noble intention. In fact, I guess a lot of of Western people just don’t feel happy seeing the rise of China. Due to that, it never comes to our surprise that we are seeing so much criticisms on us.

What I don’t understand is how some of the Chinese commentators in this forum and others seem to speak as if it is somehow “patriotic” for Chinese citizens not to enjoy the same rights as citizens of Western countries.  How is it patriotic to settle for less? Drawing attention to the lack of such rights is not a criticism of the Chinese population. Neither does drawing attention to the lack of such rights absolve Western countries from their terrible record in other areas, such as Iraq for example.

hi kenng.
just trying to support those who have been silenced by the government. we are fortunate to be free to speakout, so I feel strongly for those who cannot & those who are abused for doing so,. what else should we do?

kenng,
i’m not from the west, i’m from india. but i still think china has a lot to do. there is nothing to gain from destructive criticism, so yes, all comments are for the betterment of china and the world. people are making such comments because they care about the people in china. i’ve always held the issue of human rights in high regard, and i think china should take steps to improve the situation there. if the present governement takes into consideration the actual needs of the people and not only economic progress, but welfare, then the world will always remember them as the governement that was great enough to change china for the better. they will always be remembered as true humanitarians.

A lot will depend on whether Western media looses perspective because spectacle of it all.
 
 
Our own perspective is from our work at http://www.tibetanphotoproject.com
 

Hi all,

I truely appreciated your intention to make China better. I myself hate seeing so much unjustice in China and other countries.

However, how many of you can really be sure that a peaceful protest will always lead to a peaceful outcome? From what I saw so far, so many protests which claimed to be ‘peaceful’, at the end of the day led to violence and chaos when the protestors’ demand were not satisfied. When violence and chaos occurred, then it will be a setback to the economy and the nation. At the end, Chinese people will be the ones that suffer.
I believe a lot of ppl won’t agree with my stand. However, I just hope that China will not see any major turbulances for its development.
Thanks

the obstacle

First of all, there’s no need to be overly pessimistic about the future of democracy in China. It’s only been seven decades since the May Fourth Movement began, compared to the three centuries that it took for science to be accepted, so there’s no call for complete despair.

Second, the basic principles and standards of modernization and democratization are like those of science — universally applicable. In this regard there’s no Eastern or Western standard, only the difference between ‘backward’ and ‘advanced’, between ‘correct’ and ‘mistaken’.

Third, the chief obstacle to the modernization and democratization of Chinese culture lies in the same erroneous idea that kept science out of China for so many years: the theory of China’s ‘unique characteristics’, in all its variations.

Fang Lizhi, April 1989

To those who seem to think amnesty was sort sort of anti-chinese conspiracy clubs, please, do a little research. Yes, China is not the only human rights violator in the world, nor is it the only one amnesty works on. I bring your attention to the following URLs:
http://amnesty.org/en/appeals-for-action/end-rendition-secret+detention-europe-duty
http://amnesty.org/en/campaigns/counter-terror-with-justice/actions/appeals-for-action/say-no-to-illegal-us-detentions
…which are just the first I found on Europe and the US.
Currently, more attention is focused on China because of the Olympics - but that was kind of the point, wasn’t it? Promises have been made to get that attention, and now that they’ve been broken, what do you expect?
Note also that the finger is not pointed at you personally, but at the responsible government officials.

“amnesty was sort sort of anti-chinese conspiracy clubs” — it may not be the case but it is certainly a club trying to IMPOSE the WESTERN culture and value system on socieities with their own culture and value system — it is basically racism in a political correct disguise.

Yes, 0xdeadbeef, I have been doing research, yes  AI not only working attach China, it also spend lots of energy to attach issues in Iran,  which is another focal of political confliction, therefore good candidate of conspiracy , using human rights to attach a nation is the best method in political propoganda

In relation to the justice of this anti-Olympic campaign operated by AI, I have expressed my opinion in one of my post in the other section of the forumn, I copied it below again. because its a very typical example of many so called human rights issue in the country. The change takes time, taking advantage of public event is unjustice.

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In the long run, I do believe death penalty should be abolished but changes are not happen over night. The first thing need to change is not really what government think, but what average people think about this issue,  when still many people do not understand the abolishing of death penalty,  even government want to abolish it, it will not happen,  because the public wont support it. The common reaction would be ‘if serious crime is not punished how can I ensure my security? people to extend see death penalty as warning of serious criminal behavior’, I know this from my personal experience, you do not have to believe in me, the best way to get to know how people think is go to the country and do a scientific survey but not arguing or assuming things!
AI, this kind of survey wont take lots of money if you find a good agent help you, I did a national survey of attitude in the nation, it cost less than 1,000 used !
This is reality, we need educate public first and change takes time. Many nations are still having death penalty, they also facing similar problem, not only China.
On the other side of issue, if government work with AI totally and stopping death penalty by forcing general public, it would be a typical example of abuse of democracy, I don’t think much people would like it.
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Those people who think they can changing China dramatically by pressing the government in the name of the game is naive and double- standarded in their views on human rights and democracy, why should they want the government force its citizens do things they do not understand and accept (abolishing death penalty in this case)?
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To those who really care about the improvement of human rights in the country, please be patient and work with Chinese people.
Learn some eastern wisdom (not necessary China, it can be India), be tolerant.
 

hello all, In response to the biased campaign of some human rights organization against the disadvantage ethinic group, Cultural Peace Group is formed,
It is “a network of people who care about world peace and appreciate the diversity of different cultures. Many serious conflict in the world is rooted in cultural misunderstanding. To make the world a better place we 1)promote culture respect 2)facilitate the communication between different cultures 3)improve the rights of disadvantage ethinic groups. Contact us: CulturalPeaceGroup@gmail.com ”
please visit the webpage for more information  http://culturalpeace.blogspot.com/

I think it’s interesting to list out the defense strategies of those who take the side the Chinese government here:
 
 
1. “The Chinese government sucks, but so do Western governments.”
 
2. “You criticize the Chinese government because Westerners are jealous of a rising China.”
 
3. “AI is a conspiracy, manifest of Western chauvinism.”
4. “China is a big country with a huge population, so a certain level of human rights violation is justified because it’s not easy to govern this country.”
 
 
As a Chinese, I just do not see how the West would fear a rising China, given that so many Chinese internet users nowadays still lack the ability to check facts (as pointed out by 0xdeadbeef) and make a logically coherent argument rather than regurgitating some cliche.

there are clear prejudices here, look at the questions to lead readers to vote on this website, or even the pictures which demonlising china.  what would you think if the vote questions are -  Do you think 99.9% of Chinese people in china believe the countries human right record has improved and will continue improve in China?  Do you think the olymipic game is a peoples game and should not mix to much with politics?  
 China has been making a constant progress on human right improvements, and this progress is still going. When asking chinese people in China, most people feel we are on the right track, stop ordering us around!  Chinese people and China as a country has been suffered for hunderds of years from the western robberies and invations. Now finally standing up, its not fair to demand a immidiate Synconisation of the same level of democracy as the west, - China is on the right track!  if for those who really want to improve human right situation for the human race, should pay their immidiate attention to some counties who are much worse than china, and/or work with chinese people in a less hotile manner.
The olympic game is very important event for people, why now???

I just want to say that I completely agree with what hongkongcitizen is writing about trying to separate the Olympics from politics. We would not even need talking about that issue if China was behaving like it should as a nation right now. Chinese people seem to me to be the best of kind: friendly, honest, polite. Chinese culture is so rich and fantastic, it really makes me sad that the Chinese government will not honor themselves and us a truly joyous event.

I wish I did not have to read about oppression and paranoia when learning more about the hosting country but unfortunately the host itself offers me no alternative. I do not value a new encounter by the words he or her is saying about himself but rather by his or her actions and way of behaving. Sadly enough, China, you leave me with a sense of doubt and disappointment. You have bad manners and sweet words and proud propaganda can not hide that from my eyes. I do not want to lose faith in your improvements but how long will it take and how many more denials do we have to stand up with before we can become real friends and not hide from each other like cheating betrayers? When will you make it possible for us to applaud all your efforts - not force us to remind everyone we know about foul play and false results? The race has begun and even if it looks like you and the IOK are winning, you are no righteous champions to me, at least not yet…

Personally I am all for imposing my culture on others - I would still be doing it if those pesky rebels hadn’t destroyed my death star. May be when the Games are over the Birds Nest can be coverted into a new one? To be honest the Amnesty is rubbish at imposing what you earthlings call ‘western values’ [you have some kind of compass prejudice? Strange] - but the IOC, well they rock. I am surprised no one has complained about the ’western’ sports bias [cycling, tennis, football, long jump, high jump, bmx - BMX!!]. Never mind the Amnesty, the ones who are laughing my debating friends are the sponsors and broadcasters [now I wonder where they mainly come from....?]. The Amnesty is not the western invasion - the Olympics is!
May the force be with you.

hello Perete, I have disscussed the relationship between CN government and CN people in one of my post in the death penalty section, I put it here for your information, there are also other people giving information of real situation of current government in that same topic.

You ask how long it will take, unfortuantely China was colonized and heavely exploit in the past, so the starting point is very low, it might take a bit longer than you expect.
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I am glad to see some intellegent new comments, AI and some so called human rights groups, please stop fool the public by your money oriented campaign, I was so deeply involved in advocacy movement, so I know well about what is happening in some international organization.
please tell the truth!
Like this case, for very long AI campaign has been single China out without sufficent evidence. it either focus on portait a few cases or based on total amount of any issues. Those method ignored the big picture in the country and is unscientific and biased.
Some may say, AI targets to Chinese government, but not Chinese people,  this view is as naive as 3 years Child.  It means they know nothing about China.
The government is consisted of officers, those officers are Chinese people, they have family they have friends they have contacts throughout the country, you can not seperate the government from Chinese people, do you think Chinese government is that such a bad ruly class hung over the public? If this is the case, there would already be another revolution! The government is improving on the day to day basis, Chinese history is very different from west, it take time for people to experiment which is the right direction. As a matter of fact, even on those most accused historical issues, such as cultural revolution or the unrest of 1989,  there ARE divided opinions within the Party, many key people involved in those historical issue has already gone, and there are alway good officers have dedicate their life to help the people since 1949. 
Diversity in China is an important fact, Some western scholar believe there may be as many as 100 ethinic groups if caculates on western standard, many people accuse China including AI completely do not aware the complexity within this country is to such a great extend and has judge China merely based on the stereotypic image they herited from the propoganda of cold war.
When groups like AI run negative campaign against China in particular when they taking adventage of public event like Olympic, it not only hurts the goverment, hurts the images of China,  it also hurts every one in the country.  
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1) AI are most well know on accusing China without scientific evidence
2) People from China account for 20% of world population
For what you have done in the past, AI you are undoubtly world largest propoganda machines of ethnic discrimination.
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What a shame, as a ‘human rights’ group, you commited one of the most serious offence to human rights on this planet! 
This remind me the forced cultural assimilation posed on many aboriginal/native people in the different parts of the world.
If AI want to continue muddle the fingers in the country, I have recommandation for your team members, please do like many westerns , go to the country, study the language, the history and the culture and perform scientific research before you launch any campaign. I been living in this country for more than twenty years, but yet, I can not say I have known enough about it.

‘Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high; Where knowledge is free; Where the world has not been broken up into fragments by narrow domestic walls; Where words come out from the depth of truth; Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection; Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way into the dreary desert sand of dead habit; Where the mind is led forward by thee into ever-widening thought and action - Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let me country awake.’
From ‘Gitanjali’ by Rabindranath Tagore.

starworld, event without the leading questions, open online survey is an unscientifict method the gather public opinion,   My 12 nation survey was based on web technology, but I get ride of the option to use this kind of open survey at very early stage, because the response rate will be very low and those people vote are very much like to belong to group of people with certain features, such as those are very angery or very much like to express his opinions. therefore it will not give much useful information of the real opinions of public. The result is not representative at all.

So do not take the vote on there website seriously.

 The eerie resemblance between the 1936 Olympics in Berlin,Germany during the Jewish Holocaust in  and the persecution of Falun Gong practitioners in China during 2008 Games in Beijing is not only self-evident it is profoundly dissapointing. The world has failed to keep its promise of Never Again.

An excerpt from a recent ruling of a Rabbinical court in Israel states in regard to the 2008 Games:
“If the human rights issues are not addressed before the Olympic Games
begin, we consider participation in them by athletes and by spectators
and political leaders to be an indirect danger to world peace,” …

(From Re-established Jewish Sanhedrin rules against participation in
Chinese-hosted Olympic Games
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3569675,00.html )
I have recently recorded a song to help raise awareness around
this issue http://www.1936again.com
Never Again Means Never Again
Courtney Dowe

Enter your comment here
I cannot speak for my government, just for myself.  I have been finding myself considering a personal boycott of the Olympics.  I cannot watch it.  I will not miss it.  They will not miss me.

Hmmm, the force is strong in this China. To the dark side they will come as their masters did before. They to will take advantage of the weak and poor nations to extract resources to make them powerful. Yes, it will indeed be the Return of the Imperialists. They have learnt well.

In my opinion : nothing may be done which should be against Chinese People and Athletes.

But I think that Chinese Government do not respect the olympic spirit. They just do not care with it. This must be said by the Olympic Commitee, especially to the chinese people.

Can we compare with 1936 games ? In a way, yes : the Games have been hijacked.

Could Olympic Commitee discalified Chinese Government without prejudice for the Chinese Athletes ? May be possible. Then Chinese Government will not be able to win any medal. This should be a way to express the facts without boycotting the Games, no ?

Darthvader, thanks for light relief
Pimpmy quote, great stuff.
thinkagain..%???
your too late!! the story has already BEEN told by your compatriots!! not westerners, Chinese nationals from China.
you know electric cattle prods shouldn’t be used on human beings!!!

Enter your comment here
It’s very simple. Awarding the PRC the Olympic Games goes against the Olympic spirit.
In 1936 the games were held in Nazi Germany-  this was before Germany invaded Poland.
Just remind me what happened to Tibet, Africa…etc?

I do indeed appreciate Amnesty International’s work worldwide; however, to claim that “The Chinese authorities are tarnishing the legacy of the Games” is to me a complete false and blured statement. The Chinese Government have not brought politics into the games, but surely Amnesty International has! So who is tarnishing the games?

straying from the point here…
why is it that the chinese government’s decisions are inflicted upon china as a whole? people are either supporting or disagreeing with china, but its not as black and white as that .. is it..?
sorry.. just a kid trying to join into an adults conversation, trying to find some sense in it all..
 

drusus, please check the history of human migration and evolution, everyone is comming from africa, no ethinic group stay on their own territory from very beginning till now, so should we boycott all Olympic as all host are link to taking over the place of others?

So, Mr director of AMNesty International, have you been to China before, I guess no. Because you have no idea what’s going on in China now. Do you have any idea what was the situation in China 40 years ago? Do you have any idea what is the situation in China now? let me tell you, 40 years ago, we Chinese were as poor as most Africa, But now, most of Chinese people are enjoying their life because their life are improved a lot. but you guys are just can not stop insulting us.  what is inside you, really, jealous? envy? or fear? or arrogant?
a warning!!!!!!!!!!!!
don’t try anyway to provoke our Chinese
don’t try anyway to provoke Olympic spirit
otherwise,  you are just accumulating hatred

China is truely an independent country. It does not applease any powers no matter how big. It does what is best for its people. It lifted 300million out of poverty. China foreign policy of mutual respect and non interference and respect for territory integrity has create friends all around the 3rd world country. Its economic policy has been outstanding. Its infrastructure is outstanding. It athletics has been outstanding. Its PLA response to disasters has been outstanding especially in Sichuan Earthquake.  And it has 87% support from its own people. Outstanding. Way to go China. Jia You Zhong Guo. Jia You Beijing Ao Yun Hui.

Chinese proverb. A great man is not bordered by Dogs yapping at his feet.

If China is an independent country, then perhaps it should be independent from hosting the Olympics, if it cannot manage to fullfil the terms of its contract on fixing its human rights abuses? 

I do not only single out China, though. If peoples’ homes had been demolished to make way for the Olympics in England, I wonder if the tv producers here would have indulged the event (as they undoubtedly will); the BBC have already started a ‘Count down to the Olympics’ advertising campaign for example.  

User2008, Amnesty hasn’t politicised the Games in any way. The Chinese authorities promised to improve human rights, amongst other things if they won the Olympics back in 2001. They have failed in these promises, human rights have got worse in China in many areas. Amnesty are trying to encourage the Chinese authorities to uphold these promises, asking for imrpovements in line with these commitments is not political. Human rights are not politcal. They secure the basis for all human life, everyone is entitled to them. To stand up for the rights enshrined in the UDHR is also to stand upfor the Olympic values enshrined in the Olympic Charter - here you can see that the Games are not just about sport at all. Like I said, human rights are not political, arresting human rights activists and charging them with ’subversion’ is political. The Chinese authorities have done a good job of “politicising” the Games with such action, not Amnesty.

cadgee, want  westen opinion?
A westerner’s view of China
look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0ZKU7k5ZeI

ZL Lin, China has done a marvellous job in lifting  many people out of poverty; no one here disputes this fact. But you will find that China’s erring on the side of “non-interference” has caused many many problems in the third world. I’m sure you know about Darfur and Zimbabwe. As quick as the world imposes economic sanctions on these countries, China is opportunistically picking up the slack and levelling international efforts to stop human suffering in the form of genocide and gross human rights violations. To be sure Jia You Zhong Guo, but let’s not forget Jia You Ren Quan

Another Chinese Proverb:  ”Ignorance is the night of the mind, but a night without moon and star.”

I sure hope more people comment here than 62? Although the games haven’t started yet. But already the China govt has changed things. I don’t think they will ever relent.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j83/dandmb50/riotsquad.jpg
Daniel …………….. Toronto, Canada
 

To Jimba – First you said “China has done a marvellous job in lifting  many people out of poverty.”
Then you said “…..but let’s not forget Jia You Ren Quan”
Are you saying that  Eradicating  Poverty is not part of Human Rights ?
If so then you know nothing about real human rights.

Having lived in China / Hong Kong for over a dozen years, I have mixed feelings.  I know that my Chinese friends were happy and proud when China received the Olympic nod and I certainly don’t want to diminish that.  I’m happy for them.  However, one thing that strikes me (and is seen in several of the posts here) is that many Chinese (i.e. those from the mainland) are unwilling to accept any form of political criticism.  They tend to take any criticism as a national insult.  I think part of the problem is that they lack a tradition of criticizing the government publicly for the purpose of national improvement. (Although some ancient philosophers argued for this.) Unfortunately, the Chinese Communist Party has successfully maintained the perspective.

While there are many problems in Western countries, people and organizations constantly criticize their governments’ domestic and foreign policies.  Amnesty International, for instance, also criticizes Canada on its record with native peoples and criticizes the US for issues regarding urban poverty and the death penalty.  (So, ZL Lin, Flamcsd and others, don’t feel that only China is targeted for criticism.)  In contrast to China, political criticism is totally normative practice in Western countries and has no taint of anti-patriotism.

While the CCP has helped China to progress tremendously, I can’t help but feel the lack of self-criticism is actually holding back progress.  Surely China would be better off today without the tragedies of the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution and the Tiananmen Incident.  Surely life would be better for the earthquake victims and those who’ve been forcibly relocated for the Olympics to have had the opportunity to publicly voice their concerns to the government, have their perspectives honored, and engage in dialogue between the government and its own citizens.   China would be well respected by much of the world and would increase in prestige for being so tolerant and life would improve for its own citizens.  Having said this, Westerners need to recognize that human rights in the West weren’t achieved so rapidly.  There were, after all, about 700 years between the Magna Carta and women being recognized as persons in the law.

western technology

«The surveillance system deployed by China for the Olympics, which includes key pieces of Western technology, is the most comprehensive and sophisticated surveillance system ever», said James C. Mulvenon, of the Center for Intelligence Research and Analysis in Washington, a private group that does classified work for American government agencies. «Properly used, it will definitely increase security at the Olympics, and Western companies will have contributed to that security.»

Largely separate from the Olympics, China is moving to install video monitoring systems in its 600 largest cities, and some, from Shenzhen in southeastern China to Lhasa, Tibet, are already far along.

«The longer-term implications are less positive», Dr Mulvenon said. «Whereas the legacy of previous Olympics was sports stadiums, the legacy of the Beijing Olympics will be a high-tech police state.»

Edward Wong & Keith Bradsher The New York Times

o tópico

Zl Lin, I believe they call your line of reasoning a “ignoratio elenchi”: A logical fallacy which consists in apparently refuting my statement while actually disproving something not asserted. o.O 
FYI, no, that’s not what I meant. Sorry, I will not bother you again, or waste my time.

amy 43
thanks for the poignant comments, they cut through the wall of psychobabble we’re being exposed to in some of these posts. some attempt to dilute & confuse the issues on basic human rights with great diatribes about the evils of questioning the Chinese regimes human rights record.
A question for anyone out there, what was Gao Zhisheng’s crime?

 I agree with anthonyinhk and amy 43.
Chinese culture and people are not in dispute here, rather human rights violations. Violations that should be addressed no matter where they occur. That is what Amnesty does and has done for more than forty years. No matter which country, be it the USA, UK, Iran, Republic of the Congo,Australia so on and so on.
To all those who diminish the concept of human rights; luckily for you organizations like Amnesty will stand up for your rights no matter what kind of person you are. If only you knew what it was like to be in a situation where your basic rights are being violated by the very people who are supposedly there to protect you and uphold the law you might feel differently.
Torture, arbitrary detainment, “re-education” though labour (akin to concentration camps – where one is forcibly re-educated), forced abortions, forced sterilizations, no freedom of speech, censored internet, no access to a lawyer. These are all issues that occur in China and must be addressed by Chinese people and the world alike.
I have lived in China before and I have spent many nights over a meal discussing the situation in China with Chinese friends. I too like many Chinese was fooled by the CCP with propaganda about Falun Gong for example. I was told the most horrific stories about this “evil satanic cult” that set themselves on fire and murder and slaughter! In fact none of that is true, and you have to leave China to find out.
Too many good, ordinary, diligent, loving Chinese are not allowed to speak their minds, practice their beliefs, think about politics, and criticize their leaders. If you’re lucky enough your phone will be tapped, like many Chinese people I know. Subsequently forced to put their heads down and shut up.
AI has no agenda other than ensuring basic human rights are respected. It is beholden to no-one. They speak out equally on all countries, as much as they can. Given that the Olympics were supposed to propagate human rights improvement yet has gone the opposite way and the fact that Tibet was locked down earlier in the year, China has had exceptional coverage.
Chinese brother and sisters, its time you like the rest of us took a really good long hard look at state-sponsored violence, censorship and repression. The torture and imprisonment of your fellow Chinese for defending human rights or speaking out, should of all things enrage you to speak out also.
Peace out Zhong Guo!

I think it’s a shame that the Chinese government don’t seem to want to acknowledge that they themselves might enjoy far better lives if they were to just stop trying to control everybody - things run much better when people have real democracy, there would be internal and externally related benefits for all parties.

Thank you for facilitating this debate! This is exactly what I was hoping for ,especially for Chinese people themselves in the mainland.
I really hope this provides an opportunity to expose themselves to a different views which are totally controlled within their country. As we will see a lots of comments here that there are inevitable patriotic views against ”western”or ”outsider’s ” views here.I am not expecting this process to be easy. After-all , almost 3 generations under the current oppressive rule which has NOT provided or facilitated all round education.
Not to mention the rights to debate.(without the fear)
But, It is happening now for those who are sceptical of what’s their government are doing who are afraid to voice it , because of consequences. The current will slowly give them a security to say, hung on a minute…without the fear which then, will be supported by wider and wider chain of people. Criticism does not just have a negative outcome. It is a part of the positive process Please take the views as they come and hear it . And start from doubting what you know about your government! That is for a start.

China’s economic progress is without a doubt impressive. It’s only very sad to see the cost of this progress. No social or human rights for its people who live under constant fear and repression if they dare to speak their minds and disagree with any aspect of their government.
The degradation its people suffer is horrible.
But I also think the power games between the Hans and minorities are worse…they do to them what the governments does to its people…supress fundamental freedoms and instill fear.
The Olympics however will not show this..intead they will showcast the few fortunate ones, wealthy enough to see the games…what happens to the people sent to labout camps? the migrant workers who constructed day and night all the facilitiess? how proud are they to host the games?

Why focus on China when so many other Human rights abuses carry on worldwide? China made a promise to the IOC and to the world. Human Rights have not been met; whether it be Tibetan or Human Rights protestors or merely media freedom. When a major country of the world makes such a promise to the international community to work towards major Human Rights breakthroughs in said country, and is therefore granted with such an amazing event and oppurtunity that is the Summer Olympics, when it blatantly, blatantly, backs down and if anything, further restrains human rights developments which were at the very least aludded to by the international community; then yes, that country will be looked upon with utter scrutiny and deservedly so. As for the best Olympics ever? The event may run smoothly; something the Chinese have a gift of, but whether it will be enjoyed ‘better’ than other Olypmics by Athletes and spectators in Beijing and Worldiwde, it is highly doubtful.

As for the pitiful debates:
Everyone’s way of life is different, as are their views, beliefs and culture. To say your way is better than someone elses is naive.  Moreover, to those who believe that politics shouldn’t have been brought into this; politics is everywhere; and it was definitely in the IOC’s basis for granting China the Olympic Games of 2008 and China joined this notion too.
The most important aspect we need to look at here is the Universal declaration of Human Rights. As aforementioned, no society is better than another; be it China over Tibet or West over East or vice versa, but a society that blatantly ignores universally agreed upon Human Rights again, must be scrutinised. Are China complying or going to the lengths promised? Are all here in this debate really abiding? I’ll provide a couple to get us thinking:

Article 1: All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article 3: Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Article 9: No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

Article 18: Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

Article 19: Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

Article 20: (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association. (2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

Article 30: Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

When discussing the following questions could we please focus beyond pitiful arguments and rather into an debate that is informative and enlightening. I’m most interested in hearing people’s notions for the second question. 

Almost every report I’ve read says some improvements have happened, and although it is clear that China still has a long way to go, two words keep occurring to me: exposure and integration.
This many people, this many points of contact, this many eyes and this many reporters are already having an effect. The Olympics offer a unique chance for some real changes.
The question is ‘What happens after the Olympics?’

I’m a chinese citizen, out of china. I’m in spain  now. Here , the life is very different. People are free,….people can live in peace,…no scarys, no trubles, no repression.

i live spain.

I don’t want to be rude celebriande but, you’re attempt at encouraging the debate(rs) toward a non-pitiful state (presumably also the wider state of the world) seems bombastic and mad to me. Alas(?) I presently don’t really have the will to supply my own efforts at comprehension of the nature of the supposed problem and theorize some best-choices for behaviour that others may or may not like to adopt. Consider that sometimes we might just play our hand without revealing anything more, though, as a conscious or unconscious decision (dang, blown it).     

Ha ha classic look at the you’re(!)

The Olympics are underway since they are 12 hours ahead of us. I just turned on the TV while the ceremonies ended. It truly was impressive in HD and this year is my first time watching in HD. The lighting of the flame was a little disappointing, but overall it went well.
Daniel ……………… Toronto, Canada

Four years of training had helped her to achieve her dream. She was now at the highest march of the podium. The anthem was celebrating her feat. She wiped a drop of sweat, and started crying. As for many people in the world, the audience thought that she was expressing her joy. That was not the case. Suddenly, she understood what that drop of sweat meant. It was as a swap against rivers of blood, the blood of all those people that had been displaced. Then, she saw all that horror behind the games. Just under the podium, there was a house, the house of a good family that had never done any harm to anyone. And yet, they were displaced. They had no home anymore, no food, nowhere to go. They had a little daughter full of promises, but she was starved, she fall ill, and she died…. The stadium began to fill, but not with all those international or Chinese’s spectators, investors, most powerful people in the world, but with the ghosts of thousands of people who had died for an international fraud …. As driven by an inexplicable force, the medal suddenly felt into a pool of blood that filed up the place now. Then it was caught by the current, and rejoined the ocean of blood of all those genocides that had wounded so many times the Humanity.   

The thing that bothers me is that perhaps a better route in terms of human rights would have been to have made a more testable agreement with the Chinese government about their responsibilities at the time they were allocated the games, including what would happen if they didn’t clean up their act.  As it is the way has been left open for corporate interests to legitimately profit from a corrupt regime, something like what goes on in Africa and many other parts of the world.

The brutality of the Communist Regime in  China is heartbreakingly obvious.

 Please wake up.

User amy43:
U said since 2001 Chinese government made promise to improve the human rights has failed where did u get this from??  How do u know that? I am a Chinese, living in china for 20 years right now studying aboard and seeing all these really overstated, over the top comments about china such as from sky news, I am just confused and pretty annoyed!! Please don’t get me wrong, I think without showing the weakness, u can never improve yourself, but constantly and only the negative image, news showing on TV make me wonder: do u want help or do u wanna stab?
before I want to say how I feel about china’s human rights I want to say that I do believe if the western world and china want to get know each other better, the only way is to communicate. However the sad thing about this is politics use the media block the fair view of a country.  Living in UK its normal for me to see media just put china down, the government down to prove point of china has really little human rights, people are living inhumanly! If u has made that conclusion already before we talk, basically this conversation is going nowhere! A lot of times all these human rights orgs go to china start questioning china, instead of encouragement, they are just threaten china: if u don’t do this way, if we don’t see this and that results in the next maximum 1 year, we are going to make a show out of u! Instead of helping, they go around make some crazy footage and show the world! If u really do appreciate human rights, human fairness, is this really fair?? We know we still have a long way to go, and we do want help, but this is not, this is just make us even more frustrated, because we feel instead of giving a hand, u push us on the floor!!

China’s human rights have improved so much from last 10 to 15 years, everyone can feel that and it is still improving!! the youth of china are more and more aware of the human rights, they are more and more educated, willing to learn and speak up which is so great to see!  From 40-50 years ago nobody dare to think to now people are more and more interested,  talk about it, and how can u just go around and say Chinese government has failed to improve the human rights? People are happier in China and we have a strong believe we will get even better!!! Back 40-50 years ago Chinese government would not admit china has any issues, now they are not only just admit that, they also want to change and communicate! Western world want all issue will be sorted overnight, if not there will be plenty structured harsh comments coming! I wonder is this a technique to attacking us because you well know it is cannot be changed overnight.

I would really really appreciate if people really want to know the truth of china’s human rights, how Chinese’s Chinese freedom, then don’t just sit in front of the TV or feel u just have to follow the trend and leave the comments about china, Go to china have a look yourself, or talk to Chinese beside u and maybe u can see better!! It is crazy u don’t believe the Chinese people telling the truth but believe the news!!! We are telling the truth: Chinese human rights it is still need a lot of works, BUT IT IS REALLY REALLY NOT THAT BAD!!!!!

In a way I think the Olympic Games it is great help china to improve our human rights even faster, more efficient. Same time instead of directing, advising, the western world politics use media stating some really untrue things about it is really NOT FAIR! U have say so much crap to us, right now I think not Chinese government, but just normal Chinese getting nerves when u genuilly offering help! We feel all your unfair overstated comments leave a scar right in front of our face, it is painful and memerable!! So don’t writ u r doing this is to help Chinese people, honestly, this is really NO HELP!!  

Maybe it would have been a mistake to put human rights conditions on China’s hosting.

Hopefully at worst their average record will not be any poorer than it has been in the past.

I think the Olympic games are a big step for China, but there is still a lot more to be done! China needs to listen to the world. Respecting human rights would in return give China respect as well and enhance its reputation.

Hi Lucy Wang - here is how I know they made promises to improve human rights:

‘I would like to mention that Beijing’s bid for the 2008 Olympics will do good. Every country has their own human rights problem and China will certainly pay more attention to human rights.’
- Liu Jingming, Vice-Executive President Beijing 2008 Olympics Bid committee, April 2001
 ‘We are convinced that the Olympic Games will improve human rights in China’.
- Jacques Rogge, in an interview on
BBc Hardtalk, 24 April 2002
 ‘By allowing Beijing to host the Games you will help the development of human rights’
- Liu Jingmin, Vice president, Beijing 2008 Olympics Games Bid committee, April 2001
 
‘[The Olympic Games] will help promote all economic and social projects and will also benefit the further development of our human rights cause’
- Liu Qi, Mayor, Beijing, in Christopher Clary, ‘Despite Worries Over Rights, It Wins on 2d Round of Voting: Beijing Is awarded 2008 Summer Olympics,’
International Herald Tribune,
June 14, 2001
 
“We will give the media complete freedom to report when they come to China {…}. We are confident that the Games coming to China not only promotes our economy but also enhances all social conditions, including education, health and human rights”.
 - Wang Wei, Secretary General of the Beijng Olympic Bid Committee, 13 July 2001 China Daily.
 
“ If our existing regulations and practice conflict with Olympic norms and our promise, will make changes to conform with the IOC’s requirements and Games norms”
- Jiang Xiaoyu, Vice-President of the Beijing Organising Committee for the Olympic Games, 8 August 2007, Xinhua

Some other interesting quotes here. You can see that the Olympic Charter promotes human rights in not so many words, The Olympics has always been more about sport. 

‘The goal of Olympism is to place sport at the service of the harmonious development of man, with a view to promoting a peaceful society concerned with the preservation of human dignity.’
– Olympic charter,
Fundamental Principles of
Olympism, paragraph 2
 
‘….Olympism seeks to create a way of life based on the joy found in effort, the educational value of good example and respect for universal fundamental ethical principles.’
– Olympic charter, Fundamental
Principles of Olympism, paragraph 1
 
‘The human rights problems remain an issue but it is more of a challenge and an opportunity for the Olympic Movement to make a contribution to some of its own goals – which is to put sport at the service of mankind everywhere and maybe bring about some change.’
– International Olympic committee Vice President Dick Pound after the 2008 host city announcement. July 2001, Moscow
 

The news are reporting on the negative aspects of China because they find the horrific human rights abuses as outrageous as organisations like Amnesty do. If more people are aware of the situation, then maybe this will bring about some change. You say human rights may have improved in some areas, how?  Where exactly? Yes the government has done well to lift so many people out of poverty, but why stop there?
…

Editor’s note: Edited for length. Please see Guidelines.

Enter your comment here
On the one hand it seems to me that they did not have a good impact. China trys to make it look like they improved human rights by detaining everybody who is brave enough to state another opinion. People also were evicted for Olympic games related building projects. They lost their homes without proper compensation.
On the other hand, the global public takes a closer look at China during this event. It will make more people all over the world aware of this mistreatment. This might help the Chinese people on the long run to be treated the way every human being should be treated.

War is one of the most distressing events that can occur in the world. When that happens, anywhere in the world, we hope only one thing: that it stops. That it stops for ever. We long for that, for we have concern for those people who die and suffer there. I feel the same way with that Olympic Games. They were built over so many concessions, among them with the blood of so many innocent people who lived there. They were built over the repression that followed in Tibet. They were built with the concession of free countries that pretended they didn’t see those horrors. How can someone think that something so artificial is more important than human life? But millions and millions of people around the world watch those bloody games without any concern. Why, because too often, perhaps, hundred of pictures from some wars around the world are broadcasted everyday on TV so that people are now too feed up to be able to feel… Yet people love to identify themselves to some heroes, now so full of adrenaline that the thinking may be strongly affected…
I don’t know when this horror comes to an end, for I don’t watch the new till the end, but I look forward… But there is a thing I’m sure: I will never forget, that, under the pretext of something noble, so many innocents has been scarified on the altar of profit. 
 

the torch of freedom
Arise, you who refuse to be born slaves!
Let’s stand up and fight for liberty and true democracy!
All the world is facing the change of oppression!
Everyone who fights for freedom is now crying,
Arise! Arise! Arise!
All of us with one heart, with the torch of freedom,
March on!
With the torch of freedom,
March on! March on!
March on and on!
National anthem of China

<a href=”http://otopico.blogspo

The WORLD is in change, and it is time for China to follow. They promised to be better and do what they were told, but what we saw in the Olympics, was that they kicked people out of their own country, because they diddn’t have enough money. That is just mean! We come from Denmark, and here we help each other. If you can’t make it on your own, there is allways help to get. Either from the goverment or from helporganizations. Of course there is alot more people in China, but still you shouldn’t kick people out, just because they are poor.
That is our opinion.

Christina and Didde-Sofie (from Denmark).

This discussion is now closed.

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